Car clubs have been around for a while now but it is only recently there’s been a big ‘drive’ (excuse the pun) to promote them. With advertising on streets, on buses and in newspapers, car clubs are being given a big push as a new way of getting around.
But can they be considered sustainable transport or alternative transport? Do car clubs offer low-pollution vehicles for hire and are they succeeding in signing up current car users or encouraging non-car users to switch from the bus to the car?
Also how many car club cars are there across London (and in Harrow) that people can take advantage of and how many of these are needed along a network for there to be a spot to pick up and drop off a car when and where you need one, so that it is worthwhile?
On the carclubs.org.uk website it states that car clubs do save money compared to owning a car but are also suitable for those who occasionally need a car. Is this not encouraging current carsharers who get a lift off family/friends and otherwise walk/cycle/use public transport when they can to consider buying into the car culture and negatively switching habits of positive sustainable transport to a more comfortable ride at whatever cost, because it’s cheaper?
Taking a bus costs £2 in cash fare per journey or bus you switch. So if you need to travel a short distance but need to take two buses that’s £4. The single journey cash fare on the Tube in zone 1 is £4. So compared to the alternatives it may be cheaper to hire a car for 1 hour as part of a car club.
But is this sustainable if it is encouraging current public transport users to switch to car club cars for convenience and won’t more cars on the road mean more transport congestion and pollution?
What is your take? Are you a car club operator or user? Speak up and blog your opinion!
32 comments:
car clubs are great - a great way to use a car without owning one and not worry about cleaning it up afterwards. I do take the bus less now I've got a car club membership because why would I waste time waiting for a bus, maybe not get a seat and then have to stop ten times before reaching my destination, when I can hire a car and use it with my own comfortable space and drive at my own pace.
Using car clubs should NOT be an option to replacing sustainable ways of getting around. I think Car clubs are wolves in sheep's clothing. I have also had a bad experience with one of them in that it wouldn't open once I had booked it.
Car clubs should only be allowed in places where buses and trains don't go. Having them in Harrow will not help as we have trains and buses. Car clubs will only increase road traffic and won't work. It's fine for other places where people have to drive, then you can get them to swap their cars for car club cars, but if there are buses/trains in the boruogh, spend more on those rather than car clubs. The website carclubs.org.uk seems to be misleading and presents pay as you go cars as a lifetysle change which promotes cars. What is going on?
Car Clubs are good if you need a car and can't afford to own one so use the bus. Get off the bus and into your hire car!
I have been accosted by some of the car clubs operators outside tube stations and I am sick of hearing about pay as you go cars. How do these benefit the environment? Getting car users to swap their own car for a rented car is not happening. Wake up.
Sarah Winslow
Car clubs are additional parking spaces which means less for bikes. What are the benefits of car clubs and are all operators working with one system? I'd like to hear from someone whose used one or operates it?
I read some research that showed that for every clar club car up to 20 private cars were taken off the road. If this is true (and it was independent research) then this would indicate that they do reduce congestion and pollution in city centres. I think as a part of an integrated suistainable transport plan they have an important part to play. I have a friend who uses a car club in Leeds and thinks it is great - he has found that he has re-assesed which journey's he actually needs to use a car for and therefore uses one less than when he owned one.
It's looking like the general consensus is there's no major benefits to car clubs, especially since no one can come up with a good reason or proof that they replace actual cars on the road as opposed to other sustainable modes of transport. Isn't it better then to promote car sharing since we can't (and shouldn't) get people out of their cars, but can get them to lower their carbon footprint through car sharing?
Or how about a carsharing car club where one driver picks up the rest?
Yeah Mike, car sharing car clubs do exist. They're called taxis!
Anonymous - you're right. Car clubs DO WORK IN CITY CENTRES. Not in places like Harrow. I don't want traffic congested even further because of car club drivers on the road who would instead be on the bus. The independant research was probably done in an affluent car-majority area, which is fine - because these things work in areas like this but not in places like Harrow where public transport is well used and also we have a lot of cyclists. Why would we want more cars on the road through car clubs???
I've just seen the recent blog entry about how car club operators HAVE been asked to input and none have! That just shows the business side of - set up a car club, offer no support and then just let people like us deal with the extra cars, bays etc. If you own a car club, speak up for yourselves!
Hi. My name's Jonathan and I'm the Head of Strategic Marketing at Streetcar.
Just had a chance to catch up on this and I find the comments absolutely fascinating! I hope they keep coming.
The original post seems to plant a seed of suggestion that Car Clubs should be an alternative to travelling by bus, a theme picked up on by Michael, Derek, Anony-mous and others. This certainly isn't the case for our members, or our intentions when launching Streetcar.
Car clubs like Streetcar provide a sustainable alternative to owning a car. Because while we're never going to remove the occasional need for a car (Ikea, weekend breaks, big shops, picking up the relatives), what we can erode is car-dependence. With a car sitting in your drive, it's far too tempting to jump in it whenever you need to travel - the 'you've already paid for it, you may as well use it' mentality. Streetcar is priced on a pay-as-you-go basis (like buses, tubes, taxis) so when you need to get from A to B to A, you can think more rationally about whether you really need a car or not.
The amazing thing is that it really does work. We've found that our members use a car around 66% less than before they joined. And (while it may surprise Peter) many people have given up their cars to join a car club. Which explains why every study (unless I've missed one) of car-dependence and car clubs has shown that putting one car club on the streets takes at least 6 and up to 20 normal cars off the road.
Do car clubs only work in city centres? Anony-mous suggests that in areas like Harrow, where public transport, bikes and feet are well-used, car-clubs are a misfit. But in fact the only reason car-clubs do work in city centres is because public transport is so well used. Indeed we've seen some of the most positive response to our idea in more suburban areas such as Herne Hill, Wimbledon, even Maidstone in Kent.
That sort of explains the maths. We have 30,000 members and 800 cars. If our cars were anything more than a supplement to public transport for when a car is required, we'd be in trouble.
As it is we put a lot of time and effort into helping people and councils make a positive behavioural change away from car-dependence. We give all our members 90-days to try the service for free, because we know that it's tricky to give up a car, and on the face of it shared cars with computers inside connected by text-messages sounds like a very strange idea. But 99% of the time it works.
I hope this answers some questions, and provokes some more vibrant discussion. In summary: busses are great, and car clubs are great when busses don't cut it!
Interesting different take and thanks for speaking up Jonathan, would be interested in seeing/learning more about Streetcar and how you market it to people as a convenient alterantive to owning a car. Do you have a website?
I actually have dealt with Streetcar before and feel their people on the street (or riding the streets in some cases) seem to know what they are talking about and whereas Jonathan obviously has a vested interest in promoting his company and car clubs, it’s also apparent that these schemes don’t actually offer much benefit to the environment since when they were thought through there were no processes in place to introduce environmentally friendly cars into car clubs. I’m sure a car club operator will jump on me for this as some now do have environmentally friendly options, but surely it should be a standard so they can help push the notion that every car on the road is at least damaging the environment to the least extent as possible. Also if Jonathan does not push his car club as an alternate to public transport or to its users, perhaps he should look into where his marketers are placed (outside central London tube stations targeting commuters and people already using public transport) instead of traffic jams or football matches.
Not singling out Streetcar as other operators also do promote car clubs as an alternative to any form of transport and sell the benefits as “having your own car without the running costs” which obviously does focus on the car culture and promotes it.
If car clubs wanted to seriously impact current car drivers and get them to switch to car club vehicles they would:
1) Have strong marketing material focusing on the environmental benefits and this being the reason to switch
2) backing this up with the company’s own organisational efforts towards reducing their carbon footprint and stating how other forms of travel are greener but if a car is essential then use a car club
3) Wholly focus their efforts on selling to those who currently have vehicles and drive everywhere rather than taking the weekly Ikea trip away from occasional car drivers who otherwise use public transport (and what are the implications of bundling Ikea stock in a car club car – who pays if the car is scratched or damaged? So not the best suggestion for use of a car club car, Jon).
Car clubs in flats as a forced-upon replacement for car spaces is fine – as long as they are only occupied by car club cars so they, with time, encourage those residents to switch from a personal car to a car club car. But this isn’t the only market being targeted is it? It’s anyone and everyone because the more car club users and members, the more the business booms and so the environmental argument is great at face value and as a door in, but does it hold up in their business model?
Short answer: No!
Jonathan (thanks for your contribution) says: "the only reason car-clubs do work in city centres is because public transport is so well used". What this should be translated into is that any faults of public transport translate into an opportunity to sell car club membership, e.g. Don't waste time waiting for the bus when you can drive in and pick up your shopping. Right?
Streetcar - thanks for your comment. Interesting to see your point of view.
Thanks Sarah, you can find out more about us at www.streetcar.co.uk. There's a nice ownership vs Streetcar savigns calculator you can try out too: http://www.streetcar.co.uk/cost_calc.aspx.
I think CarClubzNEVER!'s points are really interesting. For example the idea that by advertising Streetcar at tube stations we're trying to compete with the tube, and that the best way to sell a concept which has environmental merits is to sell it primarily on those merits alone. Also the idea that we should be targeting those who use their cars most.
We certainly see it another way. We aim at the occasional use (Ikea) market because Streetcar works best for occasional use in cities where there's a good public transport network, and that's why advertising at tubes fits.
As far as our decisions on how to sell the service go, if we believed that people would be compelled to change their car-use behaviour for purely environmental reasons, we'd definitely push that angle more. For most people the bottom line is practicality (and cost generally comes in second). So the best way to get people to move to the more environmental option is to make sure it beats the default (car ownership) on these criteria.
Does this contradict our green credentials? I don't think so. It's only by succeeding as a business that we've managed to have any impact on how people use cars. This sits hand in hand with replacing 70% of our fleet with low-emissions models by the year-end and offsetting our members' carbon emissions. At the end of the day forcing behavioural change is hard, and you've got to present a really compelling alternative to stand a chance. That's what we're trying to do.
@jeremyq : That's not really what I was getting at - more that if you're living somewhere where public transport is limited, you'll likely rely on a car on a regular basis (a few times a day, perhaps). The economics and logistics of car clubs start to break down at these frequencies of use, and levels of dependence.
On the other hand, if you can generally rely on public transport, but on occasion do need a car, then a car club is ideal. The occasion needn't be a shortcoming of public transport as you suggest, cars are just good at some things that public transport isn't. Escaping the city, moving heavy things, travelling somewhere where public transport is poor, that kind of thing.
It's obvious there are more issues to explore here. Streetcar, are you going to be handing out any of your leaflets in Harrow and if you do, can we ask you questions?
I spoke to one of the boys-in-blue outside Tottenham Court Road station yesterday and asked them abotu Streetcar. I asked if they thought their cars were a good alternative to public transport and the fella with the cap and curly hair said 'It depends on if you like travelling on a squashed train or having your own space.' He then did say something about how it's greener to use a car club than a private car but his first comment made me think he IS trying to sell it those using public transport (despite what jonathan says) and so I think maybe what the company say and do are two different things. Or maybe those on the street aren't sure of how to promote the car clubs and are saying whatever gets you to take their leaflet?
I think these car clubs would be good though in big businesses so they can cut their parking provision. I didn't even know what a car club is until I read this blog!
Streetcar - if you come to Harrow outside Harrow on the Hill and hand out your flyers be ready to answer questions. Maybe bring a car club car with you to show off providing it's electric or hybrid.
I've used a car club vehicle before and it is a promotion of using cars - there's no denying it and obviously Street Car would say it's not because it's their business and they need the green credentials for it to operate. However, if car clubs were targeted at car drivers specifically they would probably work better and offer more value for money. The current situation seems to be they are operating in small pockets of certain areas of London and at locations with flats. If car pooling or car clubs in the workplace were introduced this would take away from the personal car culture and then be a move towards greener travel, so I see car clubs as beenficial and something that could take off but not unless businesses like City Car Club and Street Car get their act and plan together and make the business about changing London for the better first then lining their pockets.
Jonathan, willyou come to Harrow station and talk about your company and what it does to enlighten us more about car clubs?
Yeah right, after this lynch mob he's probably never coming to Harrow!
I'd be interested in knowing more, plus I wanna know where these are available, in local areas around wembley too and also if in harrow we got them in certain places like debenhams car park to get people to leave their cars at home and come in by something else and drive around if they need to? I think local workers would do it. Any chance of getting a fleet of VWs on the road though?
I'd be interested in knowing more, plus I wanna know where these are available, in local areas around wembley too and also if in harrow we got them in certain places like debenhams car park to get people to leave their cars at home and come in by something else and drive around if they need to? I think local workers would do it. Any chance of getting a fleet of VWs on the road though?
Car clubs are already in Harrow. I saw someone from City Car Clubs in the town centre, but they looked clueless. They dropped their car-shaped leaflet too in the station. So it's not about handing out leaflets in the station anymore, it's about chucking them on the floor and making it look like you've been handing them out. Still waiting to see if these things work or are just the beginning of the end of the world.
The beginning of the end of the world? Tell us what you really think!
One of the car clubs does use VW's. I'm not sure which one but I've seen them on the road and they're pretty nifty. Anyone know if any operators use electric or hybrid cars?
One of the car clubs does use VW's. I'm not sure which one but I've seen them on the road and they're pretty nifty. Anyone know if any operators use electric or hybrid cars?
City uses hybrid I think but not sure
My Name is Habib and I work for City Car Club, we have 3 car bays in Harrow situated on Elm Grove near Tesco, (entrance via the Royal Mail sorting office). Looking at all Car Club websites I believe we are the only car club in Harrow to date
I apologise for our late arrival to this lively discussion, my colleague that would normally have dealt with this had resigned and therefore this blog has slipped through the cracks.
I would like to first point out that I am in fact a local resident of Harrow and I live on one of the County Roads, therefore I hope I can talk from a residents point of view as well as a City Car Club representative.
I have just read the string on this blog and can see that there is some convincing to do.
During my time here at City Car Club I have realised that there are real benefits that car clubs can bring to a town and it is not just a marketing spin.
Our research has also shown that once someone joins our car club their start to reduce the number of short journeys in a car. Typical example is driving to the shops to pick up your Sunday paper and milk. If the car is in the driveway the owner is tempted to use it as it is just sitting there (I know I used to).
We also know that an average car owner drives 13,438 km / year, emitting 2.246 tonnes of carbon dioxide, after joining City Car Club we noticed from our milage records that they reducing car mileage by 50% and when you also take into account using a newer car which is more efficient, this figure would be reduced to 0.87 tonnes of Carbon dioxide per year/ typical member.
Our own research into our members driving behaviour shows that we saved 4,000 tonnes of CO2 emissions last year.
Each Car Club Car removes between 6 to 20 private vehicles, this based on our research and backed up by Carplus (see below) and TfL.
We have almost 50 hybrids in our London fleet and have just taken delivery of another 50 low emitting diesels which emit under 100 grams/km.
All our fleet of cars are under 2 years old and therefore more efficient to drive than a typical car in the road.
We always recommend public transport/walking/cycling as the preferred method of transport and we never discourage this. However there will always be the occasional journey that needs a vehicle (picking up large flat packs from Ikea or moving flats).
During a survey of our members last year we found that they increased other transport modes by 42% after joining us, such as public transport, cycling and walking
We want to cut down car purchase and car use. Independent research by the Environmental Change Institute shows that on joining a car club like City Car Club 63% of members either sell their existing car or defer purchasing a new one.
I would recommend everyone who wants more stats on the environmental benefits should visit the Carplus website, carplus is a registered charity independently funded by the Dft to promote responsible car use.
www.carplus.org.uk
The vast majority of people that join car club join for financial reasons rather than just the environmental reasons.
The AA has worked out that a typical car ownership costs £2,607 per year.
Based on one or two short journeys per week we work out at around £700/year.
I love the idea that City Car Club is in my town. Car Clubs originated in rural areas where communities all put in for a communal car to be shared between the locals in order to save money and it helped to bring the community together. City Car Club is merely an expansion of that idea.
As I mentioned above I live on the county roads. It annoys me to see that many householders own more than one car especially as many of the cars do not move at all during the day and therefore are owned and kept on the street for occasional use. Very often one car is used during the day to travel to work and the 2nd car is only used for occasional use by the partner.
Our cars are ideal for the occasional use of a car. The best way to describe our service is a communal car sharing scheme. If everyone on our street gave up their second car or a car they rarely drive then there would be much more open space on the streets making the houses and streets more attractive to live in.
In an ideal world no-one should drive a car at all. However in the developed world people have become very car dependant on cars and nothing we can say or do will completely change the minds of the majority, what we need to do is to try and minimise their car journeys and offer a real alternative to car ownership.
In Harrow we already have 100’s of members that do actually use the cars. However unless we spread the word we cannot expand our cars in Harrow and therefore we limit the impact that a car club has in our area. Ideally we need to have one car within a 10 minute walk all the residents of Harrow in order to get people to sell their own cars and therefore change their driving behaviour, with the help of Harrow Council, which have been very positive, I am confident we will achieve our goal.
I would also like you to try the city car club for yourself and I am willing to offer a substantial discount from our joining fee if anyone is interested.
We are also interested in talking to anyone who has a spare driveway; we would offer free membership and monthly driving credits in return for the space (if it is in a suitable location).
I would be delighted to arrange a meeting to discuss this in person in Harrow. In reference to “Apoc’s" comment above I would appreciate it if you left your pitchforks at home and just threw fruit & veg at me if your still not happy (although at today’s prices I will collect them and take them home!).
I look forward to hearing your response.
Thank you,
Habib
My email address for direct contact is:habib@citycarclub.co.uk
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